Libya

[Jazz]

It seems as though the element of chance/luck, "what ifs" dominate this subject....too many possible outcomes or "no outcomes" come into the equation. What will be, will be,....like in the song, but probably without the nice melody & words!

[nicknackpaddywhack]

Mar 25, 2011 21:40:03 GMT 1 LeazesEnder47 said:

Mar 23, 2011 9:33:25 GMT 1 @nicknackpaddywhack said:

[quote author=leazesender47

Unfortunately Nick the UN are doing EXACTLY what they said they're going to do.......... keeping Mad Dog Gaddafi's Air Force on the ground!!
To do that it is necessary to remove his "Command & Control" facilities........However he like a lot of dictators has sited these facilities in or near civilian areas.
The tank column would have been targeted because it most certainly would have contained anti-aircraft guns, radar equipment and other units which would have to be "removed" to allow the coalition aircrews to patrol the "no fly zone" safely!!

The Arab support is much greater than you hear on tv!! I believe Qatar and Saudi Arabia are willing to send in their aircraft (now that the "hard bit" has been done! Typical of the Arab mentality!! The Arab League's U-turn the other day was nothing more than hypocrisy on their part!! They would have been FULLY briefed on what would be required to set up a no fly zone, so to say "This is not what we were expecting" is complete b******t!! That is why it took so long to get things moving...........it was vital the Arab Leaque fully understood the situation in hand.....a lesson learnt from Iraq and Gulf War 1!! I note they have since recinded their objection. Personally, I would not trust the AL one little bit, but that's just me!

Only my opinion on the situation but it stems from living and working in the Middle East for almost 15 years!

Leazes I bow to your superior knowledge on this subject
We (the majority of us on here) can only base our comments
on this situation on what we hear and see in the news.
One thing i totally agree with and have always thought this
you cant trust the Arabs ...One thing puzzles me .
Why did Gaddafi's forces destroy a Mosque

Didn't mean to come across "superior" Nick.........just trying to put a different perspective on things from an expat / ex-Forces viewpoint..............[/quote]

Hey Leazes i hope you dont think i was being sarcastic i was
serious you obviously know what your talking about whereas
the rest of us are just sofa experts.

[danc]

I'd like to start off by saying I have only read the last post in the topic. It's 12:33am and I'm off to bed in a moment. I just wanted to voice my concern on the Libya situation and ask the question:

At what point do we stop calling the rebels civilians?

At first, when these folks were unarmed and peacefully demonstrating, I fully supported the firm stance the government took. However they're now armed. They have weapons, and from what we see on the news a lot of weapons, they have man power and we're hearing they've a command structure based in Benghazi.

This, to me, is a civil war. With two sides slugging it out. I do not think it is for the international community to get involved. The rebels may very well be grateful, but I see it as a bit of a street fight.

If two guys go at it and a third person jumps in to help one of them, it's no longer fair. We've implemented a no-fly zone to level the playing field but now it's time we take a passive/observational role. I don't for one second believe there have been no civilian casualties caused by the rebels and I doubt we'll ever know. All I do know is that Libya is a civil war and by getting involved in it we are opening the floodgates.

Who is to say we won't be called upon to help in Bahrain? Yemen? Saudi Arabia (if things get worse)?. Mr. Cameron is just using this to boost his ego and make him look like a strong leader, as opposed to a man balanced atop a very wonky coalition.

[Deleted]

No easy answers Dan.........................one mans rebel is a freedom fighter to another. Whether they are actual civilians or possibly a paramilitary group is almost secondary when it comes to the inevitablity people on both sides will die during the conflict.

As for it being an ego trip for Cameron I'm not so sure.................

One man who does appear to be playing a major role in all of this is William Hague. It may simply be his role determining that, however he has been very high profile lately in and around these recent conflicts.

CWL

[nicknackpaddywhack]

The thing is when the fighting stops and Gaddafi' has flown
theres a real danger that Al Qaeda will jump into the void
and take control and remember Gaddafi said that Al Qaeda
was behind the unrest.
I beleive they are behind all of this sudden unrest in the
middle east .Stretch the wests resorces to the limit then
strike when we are at our weakest.

Just my theory on the situation

[Deleted]

William Hague has been playing a major yet low profile role. Maybe that's his way? Or maybe he realises our intervention isn't going down well at home?

I cede the fact that without outside help the 'rebels' wouldn't win, but should we not interfere just let them get on with it?............Oh silly me I forgot about the oil

Cameron's the PM, wouldn't be doing that if he didn't like his ego being boosted.

[danc]

About Hague, people have slated him lately but I always find him to be quite a stately individual who I, I reckon, does a pretty good job... His boss on the other hand...

[Shadow]

I agree with alot of dans points about our intervention in Libya.When day after day I hear about civilian deaths in other countries such as Syria or Yemen with protestors being killed by their own governments,and when day after day we hear a strongly worded message of disapproval yet nothing more it makes us look bloody obvious.

Are we now cherry picking which civilians or protesters are worthy of support and whose lives should be saved now?

More and more it becomes clear what we are doing-basically it seems as tho we have decided on regime change,we are backing the rebels and we've got our eye firmly on those oil fields.As has been said-the rebels/protesters are no longer just doing that-they are actively fighting which is an entirely different matter in my opinion.And we are helping them-altho Im still not clear on who exactly we are helping.

Im afraid I have little time for either Hague or Cameron.

The former already made a twit of himself telling everyone Gaddafi was on the run and the latter I detest.

[Deleted]

Mar 28, 2011 0:45:33 GMT 1 danc said:

I'd like to start off by saying I have only read the last post in the topic. It's 12:33am and I'm off to bed in a moment. I just wanted to voice my concern on the Libya situation and ask the question:

At what point do we stop calling the rebels civilians?

At first, when these folks were unarmed and peacefully demonstrating, I fully supported the firm stance the government took. However they're now armed. They have weapons, and from what we see on the news a lot of weapons, they have man power and we're hearing they've a command structure based in Benghazi.

This, to me, is a civil war. With two sides slugging it out. I do not think it is for the international community to get involved. The rebels may very well be grateful, but I see it as a bit of a street fight.

If two guys go at it and a third person jumps in to help one of them, it's no longer fair. We've implemented a no-fly zone to level the playing field but now it's time we take a passive/observational role. I don't for one second believe there have been no civilian casualties caused by the rebels and I doubt we'll ever know. All I do know is that Libya is a civil war and by getting involved in it we are opening the floodgates.

Who is to say we won't be called upon to help in Bahrain? Yemen? Saudi Arabia (if things get worse)?. Mr. Cameron is just using this to boost his ego and make him look like a strong leader, as opposed to a man balanced atop a very wonky coalition.

May I ask you danc, are you the guy who was standing for UKIP? if not please accept my apologies.

[danc]

You apologise? I dunno if I should be offended or not :/ but year. Same person

[Shadow]

Ahh-yes-some lively debates round about in those days-but always interesting ones I thought

[Jazz]

Now, how do you "start" a new country as in West Libya breaking away from East Libya (Col. Gaddaffi's "place")........I think its happened before....Bangladesh is a fairly new country...used to be part of Pakistan. Anybody know how its "done"?
If there is a stalemate in Libya could the above be a "solution"? Maybe a temporary solution until the legal business is sorted out or am I naive in these affairs?

[Deleted]

I wonder which side of any new country the oil will be on..........

CWL

[Jazz]

Mar 29, 2011 22:35:25 GMT 1 @clearwhitelight said:

I wonder which side of any new country the oil will be on..........

CWL

There lies the question!!

[nicknackpaddywhack]

So now they want to arm the rebels and they have
dug up some old clause which allows them to do it
Remember back in the 1980s when Russia invaded Afghanistan
America decided to arm the Taliban to help them fight back
NOW British troops are dying fighting the Taliban armed with
those very same American weapons.
Western Governments seem to be blind and stupid to what might
happen in years to come and all because of Oil