AV

[Deleted]

SG you are correct in that PR is used to elect MEP's...........

Ann this is how PR works for the Euro Elections...........

Elections for the European Parliament take place every five years. The last European elections were in June 2009, and the next elections will be in June 2014.

Since the 2009 elections there have been 72 Members of the European Parliament (MEPs) representing the UK. The UK is divided into 12 regions, and each region has between three and ten MEPs.

MEPs are elected under a proportional representation system. In Britain, you have one vote to elect all of your MEPs. Each party puts forward a list of candidates, called a regional list, and you vote for one of these lists or for an independent candidate. The parties are then allocated a number of MEPs according to their share of the vote.

In Northern Ireland there is a different voting method, the 'single transferable vote'. You vote by ranking the candidates in order of preference.

Hope that helps............

CWL

[supergob]

Doesn't anyone else see the irony of the AV referendum is being carried out using the first passed the post system.

Very good, must own up to not noticing the irony, although it was reminiscing of the vote to join a Common Market and look where that led us.

[Ann1]

Must say CWL, the MEP's vote sounds like FPTP and the NI one like AV!!!

[Deleted]

Ann the transferable vote system used in NI is in effect AV............

Not sure I can do anymore to help you understand PR. One thing for sure it's certainly not FPTP no matter how you see it..........

CWL

[Ann1]

So how would PR work in Tynemouth - or any constituency - if we had say, 5 candidates standing............Con, Lab, Lib, Greens and Ind? If it goes on a % of the vote and the one that gets the most, gets in, is that not the same as FPTP?

[Deleted]

Ann I believe the major difficulty you have is in understanding the way candidates under a PR format are put forward and elected into office. Candidates are either grouped together or put up as independents. The electorate would be voting on a regional basis not as it is presently with individual seats like say Tynemouth.

Effectively for say the North Tyneside group you could have it breakdown like this:

Labour 12 Candidates

Tory 10 Candidates

LIB/Dems 8 Candidates

UKIP 5 Candidates

BNP 3 Candidates

Independents 2

You then cast your vote for any one of the above.................

For example you decide Labour representation (all 12 candidates) is the one to go for so your ballot paper effectively goes into their PR portion of the overall votes cast by the electorate............

Subsquently all the voting papers are counted and it comes out like this percentage wise.................

Labour 34%
Tory 28%
Lib/Dem 22%
UKIP 8%
BNP 4%
Independents 4%

The number of seats allocated to each party or independent is based upon the votes they received overall not because they happened to gain one vote more than someone else. That is the major difference between PR and FPTP.

So in Government for the whole of the North Tyneside region you would have the following MP's:

Labour - 8
Tory - 7
Lib/Dem - 5
UKIP - 2
BNP - 1
Independents - 1

If I were to change it to a single candidate scenario only for Tynemouth and make the percentages just a number of votes cast this is what the result would be............

Labour 34,000
Tory 28,000
Lib/Dem 22,000
UKIP 8,000
BNP 4,000
Independents 4,000

Labour take the seat as they gained the most votes, however 66, 000 voters (two thirds of the total electorate that voted) have no representation in Government from their constituency. Whereas under PR you will have clear representation from those you voted for should sufficient numbers of other voters agree with you to merit a seat in Parliament. One party will still hold sway, however not to the degree that they can under a FPTP system.

Okay my percentages and figures may not be exact, however do you now see why PR is such a radical departure from FPTP?

CWL

[Ann1]

Thanks CWL, that's clarified it well That does indeed sound like a better system, so why aren't we voting on that system instead of AV? I didn't realise you voted for "blocks" of candidates, or rather the party and not individual people. In my hometown, for years the MP was voted in because of who he was, not what party he represented. He'd have got elected no matter what "color" he was!!! So PR would stop this, which is a good thing really, altho' I must say, he was a good MP

[supergob]

That does indeed sound like a better system, so why aren't we voting on that system instead of AV

Because PR creates an ineffective way of governing, it often leads to appeasement decisions, instead of policy decisions. Well I hear you say it works in the Coalition, well the answer to that is its only efective when everyone agrees, but when a decision cannot be reached in Coalition Governments, it usually ends up in a Government standing down and going to the Country.

As far as AV is concerned, it doesn't work if there are only two candidates.

[Ann1]

TBH, I don't think the coalition does work!!!! It seems to be working because the Lib Dems have gone back on all their election promises, and are just agreeing with the gov! It's like a marriage where a couple say they never argue - that's because one always gives in to the other!!! What's that saying, " a squeaky wheel gets the oil"

[nicknackpaddywhack]

Apr 24, 2011 10:36:37 GMT 1 Ann1 said:

TBH, I don't think the coalition does work!!!! It seems to be working because the Lib Dems have gone back on all their election promises, and are just agreeing with the gov! It's like a marriage where a couple say they never argue - that's because one always gives in to the other!!! What's that saying, " a squeaky wheel gets the oil"

Ann that was going to happen no matter who jumped into bed
with the tories.....Ive heard some Tories accuse their party of exactly the same things the Lib Dems have accused their party of
Personally i dont give a monkey's because they all have one thing
in common ....They lie to the people.
At the end of the day we all want whats best for the country
even if its for different reasons