AV

[Deleted]

Apr 21, 2011 13:00:29 GMT 1 milkhope said:

It's not important at all and everyone knows it, be interesting when the participation percentages are published, I predict a record low.

Milk I have to challenge your opinion here, this referendum is very important given the point the political set up in this country has reached.

Unfortunately the scenario you describe is also at the heart of the AV issue.................... total apathy to anything involving politics nevermind actually changing the situation in this country. Seats so safe that because the turn out is low you could put a pig up as a candidate and it would get in........................... Not because of the people who do vote, but because of those that don't!

We are becoming a nation of perpetual moaners when it comes to Government................... never satisfied about the way things are, but can't be assed to vote to change it!

CWL

[grimreaper]

Well I refuse to fill in the green one because since the last vote I haven't seen hide nor hare of a local councillor around here.
Although looking at the overall area it is very well run and equipped with good schools and parks and loads of other stuff for the residents.
I have yet to see a councillor take up the mantle of catching the speedy boys down our road,that is my beef .

Now with all the main speed cameras being taken out of use down on the A13 and surrounding areas running into London.

We now see speedsters are being done by mini cameras that can see you approaching.
So I believe the local councils should be using the old ones to catch or slow traffic down in the side streets.

Anyways I have filled in the Grey one and I said NO because I am a creature of habit and don't like change.
Heres hoping this referendum voting catch's on big time and we may see one coming soon asking if we want to change our monitary system.
Yes you've guessed it a bloody big NO to that one to.
Long live the £. ;D ;D

[Ann1]

I think I've said before, I'm all in favour of governance by referendum We should have one for ALL major decisions!! That would be true democracy! The vote would have to be compulsory and one decision would have to get over 50% of the vote.

[supergob]

I'm still unsure TBH! What worries me is that a minority party like the BNP could get in under AV. I remember the Mayoral elections here, and there was a kerfuffle about the voting. I'm not quite sure what happened, but John Harrison got in, although Linda Arkley got the most votes, this was under AV. It was something like that anyway. This is where we could do with Supergob, he's know exactly what happened The PR dept is not very good mind, I've yet to meet anyone who knows how it works!!!

Really Ann, after all we on North Tyneside have plenty experience in AV voting during the Mayoral elections. You got a little mixed up it was John Harrison who had the highest vote on the first round, but not the sufficient 50% needed for outright victory. The way it works is we the voters have a choice of first and second choice, were we mark first choice and second choice, although the Liberals want more choices, where if no one gets the 50% the least popular candidates votes are redistributed. It is as I explained to you in the Mayoral Election that the best way of ensuring your choice has a chance is to vote for them as your second choice

[Deleted]

Apr 21, 2011 13:24:31 GMT 1 @clearwhitelight said:

Apr 21, 2011 13:00:29 GMT 1 milkhope said:

It's not important at all and everyone knows it, be interesting when the participation percentages are published, I predict a record low.

Milk I have to challenge your opinion here, this referendum is very important given the point the political set up in this country has reached.

Unfortunately the scenario you describe is also at the heart of the AV issue.................... total apathy to anything involving politics nevermind actually changing the situation in this country. Seats so safe that because the turn out is low you could put a pig up as a candidate and it would get in........................... Not because of the people who do vote, but because of those that don't!

We are becoming a nation of perpetual moaners when it comes to Government................... never satisfied about the way things are, but can't be assed to vote to change it!

CWL

I don't know if a pig could ever get elected, too many rats there already.

[Roma]

Apr 21, 2011 22:49:16 GMT 1 @supergob said:

I'm still unsure TBH! What worries me is that a minority party like the BNP could get in under AV. I remember the Mayoral elections here, and there was a kerfuffle about the voting. I'm not quite sure what happened, but John Harrison got in, although Linda Arkley got the most votes, this was under AV. It was something like that anyway. This is where we could do with Supergob, he's know exactly what happened The PR dept is not very good mind, I've yet to meet anyone who knows how it works!!! Really Ann, after all we on North Tyneside have plenty experience in AV voting during the Mayoral elections. You got a little mixed up it was John Harrison who had the highest vote on the first round, but not the sufficient 50% needed for outright victory. The way it works is we the voters have a choice of first and second choice, were we mark first choice and second choice, although the Liberals want more choices, where if no one gets the 50% the least popular candidates votes are redistributed. It is as I explained to you in the Mayoral Election that the best way of ensuring your choice has a chance is to vote for them as your second choice

I thought you were supergob have you forgotten who you are.

[Deleted]

Roma SG's post includes a cut n paste from an earlier one in the thread from Ann rather than a quote.......................

It's the bit from Ann that mentions needing SG.

CWL

[Deleted]

Apr 21, 2011 22:49:16 GMT 1 @supergob said:

It is as I explained to you in the Mayoral Election that the best way of ensuring your choice has a chance is to vote for them as your second choice

I thought the whole idea was that people voted for their first choice candidate to ensure they achieve above the 50% required to win.......

Just don't see the point of placing my first choice candidate as a second choice option.............only to find the person who I placed as my first choice option, but don't really want if at all possible, actually ends up winning by having the above 50% required.

SG would appreciate explaination of why you believe what you posted does offer a better chance?

CWL

[supergob]

SG would appreciate explaination of why you believe what you posted does offer a better chance?

Its quite simple really CLW, if you take the average number of votes normally cast on North Tyneside and divide it by the number of candidates you can usually calculate how the voting will go. The Coast is Tory, who are usually the most prolific voters, but insufficient to carry the day. Labour do better in the old Pit Villages, but still have insufficient numbers considering the turnout is usually less than 30%. The Liberals have Wallsend and some of Battle Hill and its their supporters who have the capability to sway the vote. It would have to be exceptional circumstances for a Candidate to attain the required 50%, remember we are not talking about the most votes here, it has to be 50%. So if you are a gambling man, it is fairly easy to get the majority, if you can persuade enough of the other candidates supporters to give your candidate the second vote. It worked for us when we the tenants of North Tyneside supported John Harrison, after her promised me that he would retain Council Houses, which he did after he beat Linda Arkley. We used the same tactics to dispose him when we give Linda our vote, after he reneged on the promise and disposed of sheltered accommodation.

[Deleted]

SG many thanks for taking time out to respond.

I believe that kind of tactical voting may well work effectively as you describe in a local scenario. However when it comes to selecting an MP I'm not so sure you would convince enough people for them to take the risk. The major gamble being all about the distinct possibility of someone gaining a seat that a greater majority of the electorate don't want to have it! It becomes an exercise in who you don't want in rather than who you do.

That's why in my own area although there's a projected 34% swing in voter influence there's still only an 8% swing regarding the actual outcome under AV. The result being a Labour safe seat which is still practically untouchable regardless of the way almost a third of the electorate vote.

Personally I'm going down the AV route as a means of hopefully one day attaining PR.

CWL

[Ann1]

I'm still cogitating on it!! I just can't seem to make my mind up on the dammed thing!!

[Deleted]

Doesn't anyone else see the irony of the AV referendum is being carried out using the first passed the post system.

[supergob]

CLW states
I believe that kind of tactical voting may well work effectively as you describe in a local scenario. However when it comes to selecting an MP I'm not so sure you would convince enough people for them to take the risk. The major gamble being all about the distinct possibility of someone gaining a seat that a greater majority of the electorate don't want to have it! It becomes an exercise in who you don't want in rather than who you do.

You are correct, I don't think it would be possible to influence voters to elect a Government, but the policy is still possible to elect individual MP's but my response was to Ann who lives in North Tyneside and who has to face an AV in every Mayoral Election and If I am not wrong, do we not already vote a proportional Representation in the Euro Election, which is very like the AV that we are asked to vote on for electing MP's.

[Ann1]

Yes, I remember the fuss, although I got it the wrong way round!! If we get AV are we going to have the fuss with every candidate though? And what will happen to David Dimbelby's (?) election night prog??? It's going to take forever to count and recount the votes, especially in some of the London boroughs, where they have loads of candidates And could it not lead to continuous hung parliaments? How does PR differ from AV?

[Deleted]

Apr 23, 2011 7:18:48 GMT 1 milkhope said:

Doesn't anyone else see the irony of the AV referendum is being carried out using the first passed the post system.

Err! if there is any irony it's lost on me................... as there is only two options unless it has slipped your attention.................... Yes or No.......... possibly under true AV if it ever comes in there would be a Maybe!

CWL