Who would you like to be the next England manager?

[skintagain]

nickk the only reason we brought in more transfer money than spent was due to the 35 million sale of Andy Carroll, take that sale out of it and the spend since Pardwho arrived and got a 5th place finish would be 28.850,000 and sales 13 million, Andy Carroll was not worth 35 mil.

You say Pardwho is the best manager Newcastle have had in the last 10 seasons because of finish of 5th the only person to compare him with is Roeder who only got 1 full PL season, if i said but Hughton finished 1st you would not accept that as that was in the championship, so how about we add some more managers who have had full PL seasons and go back 15 seasons and compare their PL records to Pardwhos.

And like i said players soon became pardued look at Papiss Cisse 13 game 13 goals the next season when we finished 16th it took 47 games to get 13 goals.
You also seem to miss the point as well when it comes to Roeder, he had to rely on youth players as most of the first team squad were injured.

[nickkielcepoland]

Oct 5, 2016 19:10:54 GMT 1 skintagain said:

nickk the only reason we brought in more transfer money than spent was due to the 35 million sale of Andy Carroll, take that sale out of it and the spend since Pardwho arrived and got a 5th place finish would be 28.850,000 and sales 13 million, Andy Carroll was not worth 35 mil.

You say Pardwho is the best manager Newcastle have had in the last 10 seasons because of finish of 5th the only person to compare him with is Roeder who only got 1 full PL season, if i said but Hughton finished 1st you would not accept that as that was in the championship, so how about we add some more managers who have had full PL seasons and go back 15 seasons and compare their PL records to Pardwhos.

And like i said players soon became pardued look at Papiss Cisse 13 game 13 goals the next season when we finished 16th it took 47 games to get 13 goals.
You also seem to miss the point as well when it comes to Roeder, he had to rely on youth players as most of the first team squad were injured.

 Okay, 15 years. Then we can only add two other managers, Bobby Robson (better than Pardew) and Graeme Souness (worse than Pardew). That puts Pardew in second place in the last 15 seasons.  
And selling Carroll for 35 million was good management.
Before McClaren came I remember Toon fans complaining and complaining and complaning about Ashley not spending money. How does that square with your version of events?

[skintagain]

nickk any manager can have a good run and if it happens in the same season you have a good finish, Pardwho had his good run but he had a fit team and the addition of some new good players who by the way were not his choice, if you think Pardwho was a good manager explain where his managerial expertise was in the season 2012-2013.
You choose whether a teams manager is good or not is based on the best league position they have had with that club, i use statistics over a period of time and by the way Graeme Souness had a better win ratio than Pardwho, so you have you're way and i have mine, i don't think we will ever see eye to eye over Pardwho.
As for selling Carroll been good management it was not the managers choice, but the mananger did say, Andy Carroll will still be a Newcastle player at the end of the season, then he was sold in January, as for Toon fans complaining and complaining about Ashley not spending money you are correct they did but that's nothing new.

[nickkielcepoland]

Oct 6, 2016 9:17:20 GMT 1 skintagain said:

nickk any manager can have a good run and if it happens in the same season you have a good finish, Pardwho had his good run but he had a fit team and the addition of some new good players who by the way were not his choice, if you think Pardwho was a good manager explain where his managerial expertise was in the season 2012-2013.
You choose whether a teams manager is good or not is based on the best league position they have had with that club, i use statistics over a period of time and by the way Graeme Souness had a better win ratio than Pardwho, so you have you're way and i have mine, i don't think we will ever see eye to eye over Pardwho.
As for selling Carroll been good management it was not the managers choice, but the mananger did say, Andy Carroll will still be a Newcastle player at the end of the season, then he was sold in January, as for Toon fans complaining and complaining about Ashley not spending money you are correct they did but that's nothing new.

Yes, any manager can have a good run, and the better the manager the more good runs he/she will have. You have been talking about Roeder's two good runs, I've been talking about Pardew's numerous good runs. 
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Graeme Souness didn't have any full seasons with Newcastle, but he finished in the bottom half in his first season, where he was manager nearly(!) the whole of the season. We were also in the bottom half when he was sacked in his second season. His saving grace was his FA Cup semi-final, but I personally don't think it makes up for more than a year of being in the bottom half. 
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You mentioned Roeder's League Cup quarter-final, I showed you that Pardew did the same - you ignored that. You mentioned Roeder's intertoto Cup win, I showed you that Pardew did better - and lo and behold - you ignore it. I have now showed you how Souness was incapable of taking us to the top half, in his year and a bit, in response to your claim that he was better than Pardew - and you'll undoubtedly ignore that too. Anyone can just ignore arguments. I haven't done that with your arguments, I've responded clearly to them. You just ignore my arguments. Which anyone can do.

By the way, re your "nothing new" comment - are you saying Ashley was unfairly criticised? I think he was. And you say the manager didn't choose to sell Carroll, so it wasn't his good management. Well, whose good management was it then? Ashley's? Yes, why not.

Oh, one more thing - thank you for this interesting discussion. You are always perfectly civil, which I appreciate.

[dragonfly]

Quite simple, find someone who's honest, who hasn't a checked passed, who regards 3 million as adequate, and can handle the media. Knowledge of football, and tactics and experience, seem secondary.

[skintagain]

nickk Pardwhos numerous good runs were not with Newcastle, he does start off well at clubs if you look at his managerial career then slowly but surely the rot sets in with low morale and then it all goes downhill, he gave West Ham their worst run of defeats in over 70 years, relegated with Charlton and took the to the bottom 3 of the Championship, Southampton got rid of him as soon as the low morale started to set in, lets see how Palace do this year if they can improve on last year.
Graeme Souness as you say did not have any full seasons and i admit his league form was not great and yes we finished 14th but he had good cup runs which gave him a higher win ratio than Pardwho.
I did not ignore the things you said about Pardwho i thought you were just pointing these out but you just did not seem to get how what Pardwho did was with a full fit team and his 5th place he had new additions of, Demba Ba, Cisse and Cabaye and you thought that achievement was remarkable, i pointed out what Roeder did was with an unfit squad filled with youth players i think what he did was a remarkable achievement.
As for Andy Carroll he said himself he was called to a meeting which involved Ashley and Lambias and they told him he was to be sold and that was that, Pardwho had no say in it.
The criticism of Ashley, no i don't think it was unfair he does at the end of the day take a lot more from the club than he puts in, he could put a bit more in and still make a healthy profit.
Regarding Pardwho we both have different views and i just think we will go round in circles over this, as for the England job i don't know who i would pick but i would not put Pardwho in my list.

[nickkielcepoland]

Oct 7, 2016 13:20:29 GMT 1 skintagain said:

nickk Pardwhos numerous good runs were not with Newcastle, he does start off well at clubs if you look at his managerial career then slowly but surely the rot sets in with low morale and then it all goes downhill, he gave West Ham their worst run of defeats in over 70 years, relegated with Charlton and took the to the bottom 3 of the Championship, Southampton got rid of him as soon as the low morale started to set in, lets see how Palace do this year if they can improve on last year.
Graeme Souness as you say did not have any full seasons and i admit his league form was not great and yes we finished 14th but he had good cup runs which gave him a higher win ratio than Pardwho.
I did not ignore the things you said about Pardwho i thought you were just pointing these out but you just did not seem to get how what Pardwho did was with a full fit team and his 5th place he had new additions of, Demba Ba, Cisse and Cabaye and you thought that achievement was remarkable, i pointed out what Roeder did was with an unfit squad filled with youth players i think what he did was a remarkable achievement.
As for Andy Carroll he said himself he was called to a meeting which involved Ashley and Lambias and they told him he was to be sold and that was that, Pardwho had no say in it.
The criticism of Ashley, no i don't think it was unfair he does at the end of the day take a lot more from the club than he puts in, he could put a bit more in and still make a healthy profit.
Regarding Pardwho we both have different views and i just think we will go round in circles over this, as for the England job i don't know who i would pick but i would not put Pardwho in my list.

I think, as I've said, that it's been a good discussion, and I don't wish to go round in circles, although I feel I must point out that Roeder's record with other clubs is no better than Pardew's. Roeder finished 7th with West Ham, but got relegated with them the following season. He also got relegated with Watford (from the 2nd tier) and finished second bottom of the 4th tier with Gillingham. Anyway, if you want to respond to those points, I'm happy to hear the response, and if you don't wish to continue the discussion, I fully understand that too.

[nickkielcepoland]

Eddie Howe is another good candidate in my opinion. He took Bournemouth from the third tier to the top tier in only three seasons. Gareth Southgate has done nothing of note in his managerial career, neither with Middlesbrough nor with the England U 21 team. The England job should never be given to anyone who hasn't excelled in football management.

[dragonfly]

Oct 12, 2016 17:55:37 GMT 1 nickkielcepoland said:

Eddie Howe is another good candidate in my opinion. He took Bournemouth from the third tier to the top tier in only three seasons. Gareth Southgate has done nothing of note in his managerial career, neither with Middlesbrough nor with the England U 21 team. The England job should never be given to anyone who hasn't excelled in football management.

Watched the game last night, anyone who thinks Joe Hart is past his best, better think again.

[nickkielcepoland]

Here are England's 11 last managers; Ron Greenwood, Bobby Robson, Graham Taylor, Terry Venables, Glenn Hoddle, Kevin Keegan, Sven-Goran Eriksson, Steve McClaren, Fabio Capello, Roy Hodgson, Sam Allardyce

Here is my list in order of how well they've done, from best to worst;

1. Bobby Robson
2. Terry Venables
3. Sven-Goran Eriksson
4. Glenn Hoddle
5. Fabio Capello
6. Roy Hodgson
7. Ron Greenwood
8. Kevin Keegan
9. Graham Taylor
10. Steve McClaren - I haven't evaluated Sam Allardyce because of a lack of matches.

What do other people think? 

[dragonfly]

I really doesn't matter! The number of foreign players in the Premier League are having a detrimental affect on the national team. They are preventing younger players gaining experience in the Premiership.

I think it's only right that Southgate should be given a go. He's no better or worse than anyone else. I'm confident the FA will make the wrong choice.

[nickkielcepoland]

Nov 15, 2016 18:25:16 GMT 1 dragonfly said:

I really doesn't matter! The number of foreign players in the Premier League are having a detrimental affect on the national team. They are preventing younger players gaining experience in the Premiership.

I think it's only right that Southgate should be given a go. He's no better or worse than anyone else. I'm confident the FA will make the wrong choice.

I don't agree about the PL's foreign players having a detrimental effect on the England team. There are four big leagues in Europe, the Spanish, Italian, German and English. Those four leagues cream off EVERY country's top players, and the rest play in their domestic leagues, or if the players happen to be Spanish, Italian, German or English, in the second tiers of those countries. Even play field.

[dragonfly]

My point is that the number of foreign player, are preventing up and coming English players pushing though from the champions league. This will restrict the number of English players having experience at the top level. The same is true about the potential candidates for the England managers position. 

In cricket there is a one foreign player per county rule, although we are still crap Results however have been encouraging, mainly due the the emergence of Joe Root and Moeen Ali.

[nickkielcepoland]

Nov 16, 2016 11:23:35 GMT 1 dragonfly said:

My point is that the number of foreign player, are preventing up and coming English players pushing though from the champions league. This will restrict the number of English players having experience at the top level. The same is true about the potential candidates for the England managers position. 

In cricket there is a one foreign player per county rule, although we are still crap Results however have been encouraging, mainly due the the emergence of Joe Root and Moeen Ali.

Those English players who DO play in the Premier League have a world class League to hone their skills in, which makes up for the fact that many English players who would previously have played in the top division are pushed down a division. Moreover, the players who get pushed down a division make the Championship better quality. But my main point is this - we can't evaluate how the new set-up affects England, without checking how it affects England's opponents. Obviously Spain, Italy and Germany are in the same position as England, with their leagues also attracting the world's best.
BuBut what about teams like Switzerland and Slovenia who have their best players playing abroad and whose own leagues are reduced to the level of the English Championship??? So all countries are affected by this, and the playing field is levelled out.

[dragonfly]

You could be right.......only time will tell.