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Post by nickkielcepoland on Jun 23, 2014 11:55:04 GMT 1
For me, Kenneth Williams was an inspirational and brave person who channelled a personal genius into comedy. He is first and foremost regarded as a comedian who played on the image of gay people. However, in my opinion, he also had an amazing understanding of the society he lived in, and, in his various characters, satirised social structure.
However, he was a very unhappy person who eventually, probably committed suicide.
Was he the voice of gay people, and their struggle against a society in which they were very repressed?
Did he help the gay cause?
Or was it more that he compromised his own person, and sold out to the community that only accepted gay people as the target of ridicule? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2014 13:12:27 GMT 1
Kenneth Williams didn't do allot for the gay community because he really couldn't. For a large part of his life being gay could land you in prison. He was at his funniest on the radio program called "Round the Horn" A sketch show written by Kenneth Horn, who died last year.
I know you are going to say you're too young to remember it, as allot of people are.
Frankie Howard had the same dilemma, he also was unhappy in his personal life.
I have come to the conclusion that being gay them for most people, is not like the epithet is suggests, and in Kenneth Williams day, being gay is a lonely life, with the constant threat of blackmail and prison.
Thankfully we live (well most of us do) in more enlightened times.
So the answer is Kenneth Williams did what he could which wasn't to help the gay cause, which in those day wasn't a lot. Hopefully his legacy will do.
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Post by nickkielcepoland on Jun 23, 2014 13:27:01 GMT 1
Kenneth Williams didn't do allot for the gay community because he really couldn't. For a large part of his life being gay could land you in prison. He was at his funniest on the radio program called "Round the Horn" A sketch show written by Kenneth Horn, who died last year. I know you are going to say you're too young to remember it, as allot of people are. Frankie Howard had the same dilemma, he also was unhappy in his personal life. I have come to the conclusion that being gay them for most people, is not like the epithet is suggests, and in Kenneth Williams day, being gay is a lonely life, with the constant threat of blackmail and prison. Thankfully we live (well most of us do) in more enlightened times. So the answer is Kenneth Williams did what he could which wasn't to help the gay cause, which in those day wasn't a lot. Hopefully his legacy will do. Thank you for that very interesting and enlightening answer.
I think I heard some 'Round the Horn' on cassette many years ago, but I'm more familiar with Hancock's Half Hour, where Williams was an important figure.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2014 18:11:22 GMT 1
Thinking about who helped the gay cause, and the best example must be Stephen Fry. He defies all the stereotypes, he's no sense of dress and no feminine traits, or is he promiscuous.
Respected for himself, his sexuality is irrelevant.
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Post by stantheman on Jun 23, 2014 20:17:50 GMT 1
must be hard when you feel you can't come out.
makes people angry with the world i hear.
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Post by nickkielcepoland on Jun 23, 2014 20:36:38 GMT 1
Thinking about who helped the gay cause, and the best example must be Stephen Fry. He defies all the stereotypes, he's no sense of dress and no feminine traits, or is he promiscuous. Respected for himself, his sexuality is irrelevant. In a sense I can see where you're coming from, but I also think you're not entirely comparing like for like - I think by the time Frye came along, society was less homophobic and more prepared to respect gay people without thinking about sexuality.
If Kenneth Williams had been around today, the trademark persona which he deployed (his mask, I'm tempted to call it) would have been seen as a betrayal of his fellow gay people.
If you look at John Inman for example, the very fact that he was gay was almost seen as comedy in itself - that would never have been accepted today, and quite rightly in my view - of course we can enjoy Inman's comedy talent today, but if I hadn't understood the time he was working in, I'd have just found his on-stage persona to be an instance of homophobia.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2014 1:32:19 GMT 1
must be hard when you feel you can't come out. makes people angry with the world i hear. I bow to your personal experience!!! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2014 14:23:39 GMT 1
I'm sure If Kenneth Williams would have done more the gay cause if he was around in these days.
His wit and comic genius would have soon shown the stupidity and futility of judging someone purely on sexual orientation.
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Post by stantheman on Jun 24, 2014 15:53:15 GMT 1
not as much for the gay community as you nick
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Post by nickkielcepoland on Jun 24, 2014 17:23:22 GMT 1
not as much for the gay community as you nick Oh, matron.  |
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Post by stantheman on Jun 26, 2014 22:02:41 GMT 1
nurse ratchett
what about frankie howerd, he was an uphill gardener and in my mind did more for the gay cause.
or danny la rue and dick emery, both shirt lifters?
liberace, a right poofta. Then again he was in the closet i believe?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2014 10:14:07 GMT 1
nurse ratchett what about frankie howerd, he was an uphill gardener and in my mind did more for the gay cause. or danny la rue and dick emery, both shirt lifters? liberace, a right poofta. Then again he was in the closet i believe? are pejorative epithets, which only a homophobic ignoramus would use. Just for your information Dick Emery wasn't a "Shirt lifter" shows how little you know. Dick emery was a serial womeniser, married five time and five children. For your information David Walliams isn't gay either. You have said more than once you're not homophobic. Obviously you are. |
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Post by stantheman on Jun 27, 2014 17:50:03 GMT 1
4 poofs and a piano. do loads for the gay cause.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2014 19:36:27 GMT 1
Didn't know you can play the piano?
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Post by Banshee on Jun 28, 2014 19:09:16 GMT 1
For me, Kenneth Williams was an inspirational and brave person who channelled a personal genius into comedy. He is first and foremost regarded as a comedian who played on the image of gay people. However, in my opinion, he also had an amazing understanding of the society he lived in, and, in his various characters, satirised social structure.
However, he was a very unhappy person who eventually, probably committed suicide.
Was he the voice of gay people, and their struggle against a society in which they were very repressed?
Did he help the gay cause?
Or was it more that he compromised his own person, and sold out to the community that only accepted gay people as the target of ridicule? Can any individual be "the voice" of a community. That's a big responsibility isn't it? Are we to judge all on the voice or actions of one? Are we to expect a person to examine all of their actions on how it might portray his peers. If I express my views, am I speaking and representing all women? All Londoners, all mothers? all of my community, all of my profession? E.G is Jordan (Katie price) representative and the voice of women? is she "playing on the image" of women as sexual objects, or is she perhaps a feminist who has taken back the exploitation of her sex and exploited it right back? In the same way that kenneth Williams might have done for gay men? Is there a difference between Graham Norton and Larry Grayson? Both camp it up for the act. Cilla Black "ups" the scouser when she needs to. Is she representing all Liverpool people? I doubt it as she is Tory.I could go on with many examples. Everyone has to just act in their own comfort zone, and its very different from someone outside of that zone to take the piss. Ie the difference between Jim Davidson saying the "N" word and jay Z saying it. I think that the comedian Reginald D Hunter has it spot on when asked his opinion on something of a "black issue" he will often ironically say " well, on behalf of my people...." I don't think kenneth Williams had responsibility to anyone but himself, what ever got him through basically. I personally think that maybe he just took back the while camp thing, and threw it right back at us. |
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