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Post by Jazz on Apr 17, 2011 22:35:11 GMT 1
My daughter has almost finished her course in "Childcare etc"....Early Years care...that sort of thing. For her dissertation she chose the subject of "Why aren't there more men in early years childcare?" At the moment I'm looking over the work she has done so far and correcting any bad grammar, seeing generally if I can make it more readable, but obviously not altering the content. Has anyone any opinions on why there aren't as many men in childcare that there should be?  Ann1 is also casting her eye over the work to correct any mistakes I make!  |
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Post by Nattfare on Apr 17, 2011 22:36:47 GMT 1
Who's correcting Ann?
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Post by Jazz on Apr 17, 2011 22:39:29 GMT 1
I'm doing that Natt, by telling her thats she's wrong when pointing out my mistakes! ;D
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Post by Shadow on Apr 17, 2011 22:56:03 GMT 1
Jazz-I'd like to give this a properly considered answer  Its an issue repeated across the care sector as a whole not just child care and I'd rather answer when I've had a chance to think how to word my reply  |
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Post by nicknackpaddywhack on Apr 18, 2011 4:06:32 GMT 1
My daughter has almost finished her course in "Childcare etc"....Early Years care...that sort of thing. For her dissertation she chose the subject of "Why aren't there more men in early years childcare?" At the moment I'm looking over the work she has done so far and correcting any bad grammar, seeing generally if I can make it more readable, but obviously not altering the content. Has anyone any opinions on why there aren't as many men in childcare that there should be? Ann1 is also casting her eye over the work to correct any mistakes I make! Maybe its because an abuser is always believed to be the man. in the same way the baddy is always seen as the one in black not true i know as there are just as many cases of women committing abuse as there are men I beleive its always the male who is the first to be suspected and this is probably one of the reasons why some steer clear of certain careers such as childcare....I might be wrong but thats my opinion |
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Post by Ann1 on Apr 18, 2011 7:18:42 GMT 1
 No one!! I'm perfect!!! ;D 
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Post by Jazz on Apr 18, 2011 8:14:51 GMT 1
Nick, yes, I think that this is a big issue and must put a lot of men off the idea of working with young children. As you point out there have been recent cases of child abuse by women so it seems a shame that some males are reluctant to join the profession. Also, its good for kids to have a male presence especially as a lot of families are now "one parent", with the man usually being the one absent.
Another issue could be the low pay associated with the job although that, of course applies to a lot of other professions. Apparently in some European countries, like Norway & Denmark child care workers are paid the same rates as teachers thus encouraging men into the job.
Shadow, I await your comments with interest.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2011 9:38:35 GMT 1
I personally believe the abuse issue is an entirely different matter all together when it comes to why there is a lack of men in this profession. Although accept like many others it is a factor to be included in the research. I would also like the age group defined for Early Years Childcare as I am assuming, until otherwise informed, we are discussing from birth to say age four or basically pre school. Are you also including men that say work in the Health Service involving young children but would not normally be recognised as being a part of EYC as such. It would also help if we had further details of the range of work involved as we are trying to provide an opinion based upon very little information unless you happen to have direct first hand experience of this particualr profession. CWL  |
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Post by Jazz on Apr 18, 2011 13:15:53 GMT 1
I personally believe the abuse issue is an entirely different matter all together when it comes to why there is a lack of men in this profession. Although accept like many others it is a factor to be included in the research. I would also like the age group defined for Early Years Childcare as I am assuming, until otherwise informed, we are discussing from birth to say age four or basically pre school. Are you also including men that say work in the Health Service involving young children but would not normally be recognised as being a part of EYC as such. It would also help if we had further details of the range of work involved as we are trying to provide an opinion based upon very little information unless you happen to have direct first hand experience of this particualr profession. CWL Re the age group that we are talking about....it would be, like you say, mainly pre school but also the first year at school...the "reception" class. As regards the work involved, it is the basic care of children, and also initiating "educational games" etc that prepares them for primary school. I know my daughter, when working on a casual basis (placements etc) at nursery schools and creches has remarked that she occasionally comes into contact with slightly disturbed children from possibly some sort of dysfunctional family background. |
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Post by nicknackpaddywhack on Apr 18, 2011 16:36:57 GMT 1
My wife works for what WAS Sure Start (Now been sold off)
and in its first xmas off operating i was asked if i would play
Santa for the children's Xmas party which i did and i have to
say it was one of the most uncomfortable things i have ever done
I had a member of staff dressed as an elf sitting next to me
telling me no dont let the kids sit on your knee no dont let
the parents take photos....crazy
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Post by Jazz on Apr 18, 2011 18:43:17 GMT 1
Aye, Nick, its that sort of thing that puts men off....makes you feel as though you are under surveillance from the start.....maybe one of these "political correctness" things that have got out of hand! I often feel like smiling and speaking to young kids in supermarkets but think again because of this "climate of suspicion" that we live in.  |
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Post by Shadow on Apr 18, 2011 18:59:26 GMT 1
Sorry I couldnt post earlier-kept getting interrupted so I thought it best to wait til things are quiet.
I think that the reasons that not alot of men are involved in early childcare are many-some of which cross over into the "care professions" in general.
I personally believe some of this is down to old fashioned attitudes-the notion that women are more suited to a caring profession and that this isnt the type of job "real men" do.We had all manner of problems trying to attract men into support work-we wanted to implement a same sex personal care policy and it proved virtually impossible as we just didnt get the men applying.In all the time that my son has been hospitalised I have never yet seen a male nurse either.I know there are some-but the numbers are vastly outnumbered by female nurses.Ditto care homes Ive worked in-only met one male care worker :-/Its not that women are better or more caring-I know that as Ive met some outstanding male support workers who are as good as any female staff-its just there arent enough of them.
In terms of early years nursery care-unfortunately there have been instances of paedophiles gaining employment in these fields,along with childrens homes and of course churches and their actions have cast suspicion on men now entering those fields of employment with motives being questioned as to why they want to work there-and you have to throw into that mix the fact that there will be occasions when personal care will be required with very young children.We also all hear the blokes who moan on about changing their own kids nappies let alone other peoples kids and I think its this type of thing that adds to the notion that women are "better".
Historically-men have abused in far greater numbers and its only more recently that those horrendous stories of female abusers have started to emerge-I think I'm right in thinking that men are still perceived as being more likely to abuse however and after all the stories about kids getting groomed,paedophile rings being smashed,porno pictures of kids being uploaded on computers-well it all seeps into the public conciousness and makes people more wary of allowing a man you dont know to care for your kids.I think men are aware of this too-even in support work male staff are very vunerable to allegations of abuse even if they are unfounded-and I can imagine that such an allegation can stick like mud if theres a young child involved.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2011 20:21:49 GMT 1
Could another potential reason there are so few men in this profession have to do with it being predominantly female led. By that I mean the management structure is by definition also likely to consist primarily of females as that sex form the bulk of the workforce. Hence there is a strong possibility those in charge want it to remain that way, so actively discourage men from entering the profession in any capacity, simply to preserve the status quo. CWL  |
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Post by Shadow on Apr 18, 2011 20:59:28 GMT 1
Thats an interesting idea CWL.
Based on my experiences with learning difficulties that wasnt actually the case-at least initially.In my first job both directors were male and three out of the six homes they managed three managers were male but the support workers were predominantly female.
Ditto the second.All male directors,some male managers and deputies and a predominently female staff-in fact in that job there were only two female deputies over the entire housing managed.And two female managers.Out of six houses and twelve deputy positions.
Finance officers were also male.
I'm not so sure if female bosses prefer it to be female only-I know when we interviewed people and my manager at the time was female-we were desperate for male staff-but the applications just didnt come in-cant remember interviewing a single bloke.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2011 21:18:43 GMT 1
Shads I'm just throwing stuff in the melting pot for consideration........ It actually doesn't surprise me with what you pointed out as a large majority of care establishments are privately owned, hence are run as commercial enterprises. With front line staff being female and management teams made up of men. Plenty of opportunity in a managerial sense to attract men into the profession particularly in the financial, commercial, senior management and logistical sides. Yet unlikely to offer the same degree of career opportunity or progression in the front line areas which is probably the route many women have to take to achieve the same outcome. CWL  |
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